Nano for Surface?

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aced411
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Joined: 07/22/2012

Any plans to develop Nano or something like it for Surface?

aced411
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Joined: 07/22/2012

I also can't help but wonder how nano for PC runs on a touch enabled windows 8 device...if it operates like the iPad that would be sick

tom_tm
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Joined: 06/29/2011

If the Surface RT is running Windows 8, I think it'll work just like Nanostudio for Windows version works? I read that unlike Samsung, Microsoft have licenced quite a number of patents from Apple. Hopefully they'll be in the touch (and audio) department. It's going to be an interesting October, but I don't think we're going to see much in the innovation department- unfortunately.

tom_tm
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Joined: 06/29/2011

Ah, okay. :?

Blip said; "Oddly, although I already have the Windows version, Windows Metro could actually be a fair amount of porting work since they've chosen to make a clean break from the Win32 API and OpenGL."

I'd rather development was just focussed on making the iOS version even better. But that's just me. :)

Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

FL-Studio seems to offer a upgrade to works with multi touch on an x86 windows8 tablet! So if that works like on an ipad with a powerful core....mmhhh....that could me take a look behind ios!

platinumaudiolab
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Joined: 08/28/2012

The main hurdle for audio app development seems to revolve around latency issues. Besides being late to market (again), its crucial that MS Surface handles touch-to-playback as well or better than iOS, or I doubt many app developers will bother porting. Apple really got it right with audio and that's why its going to continue beating Android in this space unless future releases fix those issues. One would hope MS was privy to this but I wouldn't put it past them to overlook this key issue. Anyone have any word on Surface latency?

Blip Interactive
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Joined: 04/05/2010

There have been numerous scare stories over Surface's audio latency.

Some reporters have started flapping over how it's all going to be crap eg. http://createdigitalmusic.com/2012/06/microsoft-unveils-two-surface-tabl...

Personally, I think it's too soon to go writing scare articles like the one above when no one's in full possession of the full facts. It could be right, it could be wrong, but the one constant is that journalists must write articles :)

This one hints that all might be good after all:

http://www.roland.co.uk/blog/windows-8-a-benchmark-for-music-production-...

Maybe more interesting is that it also hints that Microsoft consider MIDI support as a priority for future. This wouldn't make a lot of sense if the audio latency hasn't been nailed first.

starcorp
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Joined: 10/01/2010

i would wait till surface with win8 (x86) came out.
then we can use the pc Version of nanostudio.

jan

Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

But what about all the other Apps. NanoStudio is still great for mixing and it's my mothership but it's just 50% because i need all the powerful synths too to complete that package! And on a x86 you perhaps can use pro tools in the future but for pro prices. And i'm still not sure about real time audio in X86 on touch screens.

Blip Interactive
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Joined: 04/05/2010

Having the Surface available for both ARM and x86 is quite an intriguing situation. On the one hand, iOS developers might port their apps over to Windows RT where users might expect to pay 3-15 Euros. On the other hand, you've got DAWs which usually sell for anything between 50-700 Euros which could be ported to Windows 8 desktop with multi-touch support. There's quite a gap there.

Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

If this really get many people to buy that, i'm sure apple will make something similar...like a osx/ios hybrid. They often say something and make exact the converse after that. But in some ways i would like that to have a "full" desktop and a tablet/smartphone os in one device. But that will not work on a smartphone. He he a smartphone based on x86 power with 500MB space would be my dream device for sure! In some years.........but i can't wait......

alphacat
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Joined: 02/02/2012

What's really annoying about all of this is that Windows could pretty much *own* the audio market - or at least compete with the all-but-institutional-at-this-point Mac pro audio paradigm - and in doing so secure a foothold in the larger creative tech market. But their track record is totally abysmal on this point - it all gets dealt with after the fact, once the public starts crying out for basic feature set implementation.

And the Windows honchos are so big-picture focused that they don't realize what they're missing: "audio, eh? You mean like fart soundboards? No?! What else could you people possibly want?" ...i.e. the credibility gap that Windows still faces in a contrasting all-but-institutional-at-this-point fact; that people don't think they're fun, sexy, powerful machines that will liberate inner creativity (which is admittedly mostly hype but nonetheless Windows won't even try to get in on) and will continue to see Windows as being the 'safe but boring vanilla' OS.

I almost wish sometimes that there was a robust hybrid between an OS and DAW that omitted crap you didn't need (email, pretty desktop doodads, all other bloatware) and whose price reflected the fact that you're investing in one very specific line of development instead of trying to be all things to all people. I see stuff like the Miselu Neiro and begin to get excited and then always become crestfallen when the reality of the situation becomes clear.

syrupcore
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Joined: 09/26/2010

Long live BeOS!

aced411
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Joined: 07/22/2012

In case anyone is wondering, I tried nanostudio on my new windows 8 touch screen laptop (Asus Vivobook). The UI with touch works pretty much exactly as the iPad...with the exception of the on-screen keyboard which is basically not usable. No biggie I will plug in my midi controller for that.

platinumaudiolab
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Joined: 08/28/2012

@aced411 - Nice! But, how do you feel about reaching ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL THE WAY ACROSS THE KEYBOARD (6 inches) and touching the screen rather than using your pad/keyboard? I still find this idea of of vertical touch tablets awkward. But then again maybe i'm just a wimp. I used to always go to the gym and lift heavy weights but when I'm home my girlfriend laughed at me because I complained that folding laundry is fatiguing to my shoulders.

Funky Turnip
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Joined: 10/26/2012

I was watching the recent interview with Jordan Rudess and Kevin Chartier.

They kind of spilled the beans that you were working on a nano-studio for windows 8. Is this the secret project that you have been working on ?

Blip Interactive
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Joined: 04/05/2010

It's one of the secret projects, yes!

Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

I also saw the video. Sadly i had some problems to understand all. They have still made an android version in the store?!? Will this run also on windows 8 phone and windows RT or just on the pro? I thought there where some latency problems on RT and windows phone...or not?!? Midi? Have windows 8 (the mobiles) ASIO or something like that? Anybody knows?? Sorry for the questions but i'm interested.
@BlipInteractive: When this works, will you support both platforms in the future with the same tools (if possible)?
However, competition is good for us all!

syrupcore
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Joined: 09/26/2010

oh. snap. sorry about the bean spillage.

l.b
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Joined: 08/15/2012

@Blip any chance you could spill some more beans about the other secret project/s? Anything like NS2? Any new features?

@Galaxy (this might not answer your question fully, but) I read somewhere that Roland have already released Windows8 drivers for their newer audio interfaces (ie. Quad Capture). Then there's also (not so low latency) Asio4All, but I've no idea if this supports Win8 yet.

iOSMusician
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Joined: 07/01/2012

see comment by Rob Fielding (Geo Synth/cantor/mugician) http://www.facebook.com/iosmusician/posts/370938569654467?comment_id=518...

"I went to the Microsoft store to tinker with Surface, and can tell you that Tachyon and Morphwiz just might be the only two remotely viable touch instruments at the moment. The existing apps for drawing and music I saw a few days ago were a special kind of horrible; either recognizing only 1 finger or literally having gestures have a full second of lag while drawing, or walking away from a cheesy music app as it's still catching up and playing notes from a half minute ago. I left the store thinking that it's not the OS's fault, just that the right developers have not been attracted yet. Wizdom might totally dominate coming out of the gate. And for as long as Jordan had been out there early waving the Apple flag when there was nothing viable beyond iOS, did you ever see Apple playing the RnL vids or having him do a gig at Apple conferences? This might be a lot bigger than it looks right now."

tom_tm
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Joined: 06/29/2011

I read another article earlier today that suggested that Surface Pro could cost more to buy than a Macbook Air.

http://gizmodo.com/5964319/microsoft-surface-pro-will-be-out-in-january-...

iammane
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Joined: 03/09/2011

That's true... And you KNOW you need some kind of cover... I was excited because I'd be able to run FL Studio and whatever VSTs but I'm kinda meh now...

Blip Interactive
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Joined: 04/05/2010

Yes, the music app in the Windows Store are nothing too special at the moment.

I've got NanoStudio up and running on the Surface. Audio latency looked promising initially but currently it's just the wrong side of being responsive enough, and I can't seem to get it much better at the moment. It's extremely frustrating because NanoStudio will actually run on 6 platforms at the moment (iOS, OS X, Windows, Android, PlayBook, Windows RT) yet iOS is STILL looking like the only viable mobile platform, all due to audio latency.

I'm not giving up on Surface RT just yet - it is the closest second to iOS with regards to audio latency and there is a rumour of possible improvements in future.

Stiksi
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Joined: 11/21/2010

Sounds good!

tom_tm
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Joined: 06/29/2011

You reckon? Remember all the rumours about how Android was going to improve in the audio department? Personally I'd just stick to improving NS even more, and sticking with iOS for the meantime. When there's conclusive proof that RT's latency has improved enough to be acceptable, then port it over.

zipdude
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Joined: 02/19/2012

I hope you solve those latency issues, at least in Intel, where I heard things are a little better. And having third-party plugin virtual instruments would be awesome. Do Microsoft allow third party plugins on touch apps?

aced411
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Joined: 07/22/2012

@platinumaudiolab Its not ideal, but its doable. I don't try to use it to write new tracks but its handy for editing or working with projects I've already started. I imagine it would be better on a convertible or yoga type device.

moss
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Joined: 06/12/2011

One year ago I already suggest to just add ASIO support to the Windows version and you would be the first to have a great fully touch enabled Sequencer. Ignore Windows RT its a dead horse.

I also would like to see the Android version released, the realtime playing is not that important. Currently I am using caustic which is a great app but a bit limited; inserting the notes in the grid works fine as a workaround for realtime playing.

aced411
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Joined: 07/22/2012

"Ignore Windows RT its a dead horse."

Your mom's a dead horse

instinctive
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Joined: 07/23/2011

@aced411: let me guess, you're Steve Sinofsky ;-)