Android Jelly Bean

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Blip Interactive
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Joined: 04/05/2010

Some mention of audio stuff but STILL nothing about actually tackling the latency.

http://developer.android.com/about/versions/jelly-bean.html

Looking like a big fat fail for music creation, again.

cyberheater
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Joined: 06/05/2010

Amazing. All that work on the flashy stuff like the GUI and the haven't addressed the huge audio latency issue. They are clearly are not interested in music apps for their platform.

Blip Interactive
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Joined: 04/05/2010

Audio fail sandwich.

Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

Glad that i resell my Android phone (Galaxy Nexus)! Hope that windows 8 (arm) will not have these problems. I will not buy one but i think apple need some more competition : )
Indeed what about the latency with windows 7.5 mango?!? Are there any music apps yet?

DJ MKE
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Joined: 12/10/2011

There are improvements. Take a look over here http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=353267

Blip Interactive
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Joined: 04/05/2010

Hooray, I'd be only too glad to eat the audio fail sandwich I just made if that's the case!

Fingers crossed that prgress isn't hampered be slow adoption from the hardware manufacturers, but it sounds like the OS changes alone may have made a significant improvement in some cases?

MarkB
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Joined: 01/15/2012

Not really been following Android but have they addressed the touch screen lag too?

Blip Interactive
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Joined: 04/05/2010

According to the very first page of the of this link:

http://developer.android.com/about/versions/jelly-bean.html

... yes. I haven't really been following it either, but I'm slightly amazed that something this elemental should be a 'big thing' in a version 4 of a touchscreen based OS! They'll be saying the phone makes calls next!

MarkB
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Joined: 01/15/2012

That's good news I guess. There was a report that Android was originally designed for physical keypads but they quickly changed it and rushed it out to compete with iPhone but the touch input was running on a low priority thread. Looks like they are finally getting it together.

instinctive
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Joined: 07/23/2011

Reminds me of the June 2012 WWDC intro: "Yeah, I'm also eagerly awaiting the new Samsung... err not the phone, the refridgerator" ;-)

syrupcore
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Joined: 09/26/2010

ios vs android OS update numbers. http://pxldot.com/post/18754186750/ios-ebb-and-flow

It only matters if android fixes something a year ago for it to be of any actual use today.

Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

That's it! Because of that i only like the "naked" android on the nexus phones. It takes sometimes 6 months to get an actual update for the other or you get no update after some months. Then some apps running not on all devices (with the same os version) because of different hardware! I hate some of the restrictions of apple but it's still the best mobile os for me. And specially in the music scene ios is far away! First you need low latency then a midi protocol then....... i think we must wait many months for all this working fine on android devices. And in this time ios will not sleep i think. And of course i bought music apps and inn app purchases for hundred €'s. There is still the next android problem. There are not so much payment options like i-tunes card etc. I wonder why it's still so?! They could earn much more money. So i will stay for sure with ios the next few years.

aced411
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Joined: 07/22/2012

If you make NanoStudio for android, even if only for Jellly Bean people will buy it (myself included). There are no other viable options other than Caustic. Nothing against iOS (it's rock solid), but it's gotten so boring to me now. I stick with it for the apps, but right now music is the only lacking area from my perspective.

Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

I ask me if there is a light for music apps in android 4.2? When i see all the 5" screens coming out i want such a nice toy. After switching from 3.5" to 4" i thought it's good but 5" is much better. I can't believe that android can't handle such apps. Damn latency mmhxnkgch*#>~$,%... come on google. There is just one thing left to beat ios.....make me switch over or go away ; )
I just need 2 apps for start...NanoStudio and Alchemy.

instinctive
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Joined: 07/23/2011

@GalaxyExplorer: Hate to be an Apple fanboy, but there's also the issue of a kazillion different screen aspect ratios on Android, which makes UI design / programming about 10 times as complicated as on iOS. Just sayin' ;)

Though I have to admit: Apple doesn't appear to be going in the right direction there either, introducing yet another aspect ratio with the iPhone 5...

Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

@instinctive: Mmhhh....but i have the feeling in 1-2 years most of the android devices have the "normal" hd or full hd resolution screens....and that in a good size for music apps, games, surfing...etc. but apple....it begins to beat android in fragmentation (dramatized). I'm still a fan of the third party toys....but come on...time for man toys....4"....kid size! Yeah i know i changed my mind...i played a bit with a galaxy note...love it! I'm interested in the coming Galaxy S4 (the name would fit to me ;). I still "like" apple for the core audio etc. but the ipad mini is too big to be a smartphone and the iphone5 is too small for it...ha ha....what should i do?!? If apple would make a 5" screen i would love them right now :D....but a new screen resolution....no chance yet : ( It's just, i still have the feeling all the new android things going to be more future proof (ios 6 is a joke)....and apple is the oppsite of this.

earsnotears
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Joined: 07/09/2011

Guys come on
Apple is really gonna feel it this year. S jobs is sadly gone. He was apple.
I love all the music apps and my iPad. But I now use the note 2. Apple missed the boat big time with iphone5. Now that Steve is gone, the next big thing from apple might not happen. Every product up to iphone5 he touched, now without hhis direction they have nothing new. An apple tv
Who cares. Android are already more powerful hardware wise. Latency is near gone, just give a few of the apps a chance. Big screens are gonna be here for a few years and are loverly to work on.
The only real thing missing on android which gripes me is the lack of
Quality music apps. There is an open pond waiting to be fished for the right app. Right now there are only a couple I care to spend time on. Fruity loops coming, gonna suck as much as the os version. Matt you should dip your toes in and reep the benfits of being a quality app.
Have been a user since the start and more than happy to perchease on android
Just my 2 pence

Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

@earsnotears: I can agree but as a hardcore mobile musician there is no thing (perhaps caustic) on android. Synths like Sunrizer, Animoog, Alchemy or Magellan.....and Audiobus. Also things like virtual midi etc....so many things missing. I would pay again for my favourite apps like Alchemy (Nr. 1), NanoStudio (Nr.2 Sorry)...and some others. But most developers want earn money too. There is the next problem on android. But if apple don't come with a "brand" new ios 7 and some bigger smartphones (one hand using...lol...it's a smartphone no Handy!!!!!)! Apple made a lot shit with Hard- and Software (my iphone 5 looks older than my iPhone 4 after 2 years!). And all the innovations are made by third party developers. I don't know why google is not able to take the last step to beat ios in everything!!!
However, i have the feeling the new android phones will beaten the iphone5, 5S and 6 for sure!

earsnotears
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Joined: 07/09/2011

Nice reply
I agree with everything you say
The days of just using 1 brand are over, apple needs this competition so they have
To keep raising the bar
I also use the said apps and loving the bus
I just wanna use nano on all devices that's all
If it wasn't for the music apps I wouldn't buy another iPad
Peace and love

Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

....and where are all the amazing accessories for Lightning....Yes! Perhaps Apple have some hidden surprises in the future (again) but if not i see Android eaten all up in 1-2 years. Not really good too perhaps! But in music production ios is at least a year ago but that could change very fast. If there is a market and better api's for real time audio apps etc. there is no reason more to buy overprized toys. It's just the problem you are "locked in" if you have still bought so much apps...but at the other side the devices are so much cheaper that i could buy all apps again : ) Android would not need things like copy/paste and audiobus because android still allow such things...I have read from some people/developers that the latency is now solved with the latest devices and os (really?) but so many different devices are hard to test.

alphacat
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Joined: 02/02/2012

Interesting news:

*****************************
"Sonoma Wire Works has developed a low latency audio (LLA) solution for Android devices. Typical input to output latency on Android devices is between 100 and 250 milliseconds. Sonoma Wire Works' LLA solution brings latency down to approximately 20 milliseconds.

Latency is the time it takes for sound to go into a system and back out. Low latency is essential to musicians if they want to use a device for real-time processing (e.g. guitar amp models and effects or input monitoring during recording). Latency above 25 ms is generally considered too high for input monitoring and live effects. Sonoma Wire Works' LLA solution achieves low latency on Android with analog input to output measurements comparable to what is currently available on iOS.

"Musicians have been clamoring for a fix for high latency on Android. Sonoma Wire Works is proud to offer a solution that can broaden the device options for mobile music production." - Doug Wright, president of Sonoma Wire Works

Sonoma Wire Works' LLA solution for Android is available for license to device manufacturers. Sonoma Wire Works will be available for meetings and demonstrations at the NAMM Show, January 24-27, 2013, at the Anaheim Convention Center in Anaheim, CA."

http://www.kvraudio.com/news/sonoma-wire-works-announces-android-low-lat...

Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

@alphacat: Thank's for that post...my eyes and ears are open...if things come really true...i would buy (another) android smartphone in the near future. Want a 5" full hd screen ; )

Blip Interactive
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Joined: 04/05/2010

Very interesting. I wonder what voodoo's involved? I'd heard that the Android latency problem was due to no single thing, more a combination of OS, driver and hardware. Google improved the OS side of things on the last update, so maybe Sonoma WW have written a new driver, and it also needs to be running on particular hardware? I'm no Android expert ...

Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

I was hoping you will the next android audio expert...o.k. o.k...i shut up. But that the device manufacturers must licence it and include in in the hardware (if i understand that) is of course still far far away from a thing like core audio which is from the beginning (or ios 3?) included in the os. 20ms (i would bet it's the min....so perhaps sometimes it's still 30 or more). On ios the best time is about 5-10ms (ThumbJam is the hero here in my opinion). And what about virtual midi...possible with android? I would love it but i think we have to wait at least another year. Mmhhh...or i wait for an ipad mini 2 just for music production....but tooooooooo expensive!

aced411
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Joined: 07/22/2012

With audiobus, audio/copy and virtual midi, I've been able to do quite a bit on iOS. I am eating my words now. Nano alone on android isn't enough for me as I thought it once would be.

Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

Right...i'm now on the point where i think ios is behind the horizon in music apps against android! FL-Studio runs on android devices but the latency (and features) against ios is still bad! And windows...where is windows mobile...on the same level as android!
So if you produce only mobile there is only ios...but with Jack and Audiobus and synth which sounds like hardware my limits are gone this days ;)

phusion
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Joined: 08/08/2010

I know that you are a professional when it comes to your business and even with the big boys( steinberg, image line, propellerheads etc) now on the ios, nanostudio is still the best app for music production on idevices(not sucking up its just the truth).
But please could you develop nanostudio for android.
I know it has bad latency issues and frankly i dont care. I love my galaxy note 2 ive spent money on music apps and the latency is not great but it seriously is not that bad.
And if you did realease it. NS would set a new standard for music apps android, the same way it did for ios.

aleon909
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Joined: 03/22/2011

I feel the same way. I spent good money on both the iphone and ipad version of nanostudio and I never complained. I love this app immensely. I am an android user now and I absolutely love my nexus 4 and 10. I have been able to find almost all of my favorite apps that were on ios now in the google playstore. Games, drawing apps etc. But music production apps are still a disappointment. Fruity Loops recently released FL Studio for android. The app is not perfect, but it is still an absolute joy to play with, and I give nothing but respect to the developers who worked so hard to develop a functional version for android. I still hold on to hope that I will see blip interactive make an effort in the same light. It's especially frustrating when I think back at all the times this subject has been brought up on the forums, and the replies sometimes mention that a working version of nano studio for android has already been developed just not released because of the latency issue.

For what it's worth; recently at the Google developers conference, a developer brought up the issues of audio latency to the android team and asked if a solution has been reached. The simple answer was yes and no. The software side of the issues have been patched, But things get complicated when dealing with various hardware manufacturers all with different specifications. Perhaps you can release an early build for specific devices to start off with?

It's been a long time since I have been able to enjoy nano studio, and I still continue to pop into this board from time to time just to see if something has changed in regards to android. I continue to be patient and wait for blip interactive to shutup and take my money.

Ptero
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Joined: 03/10/2012

+1 for android version, yes, even with latency.

Aflyingdot
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Joined: 01/18/2011

Agreed I would grab the android version in a instant, even with the latency.

alphacat
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Joined: 02/02/2012

I might be alone here (and don't get me wrong - it would be great if Android users could come to the party too, but...) it's probably not in Matt's best interests businesswise to release a pro-level app, which I consider NS to be, on a device that cannot support the functionality that makes it pro in the first place.

People will buy the app, load it on their shitty 4 year old device with all of the memory used up with pics and games and then complain when it didn't work or even crashed the device - then usually promptly blame the developer and saddle it with negative reviews even though it's clearly a hardware issue and NOT nanostudio's problem.

This issue rests firmly in Google's court IMO.