i like to see an Audio Units version of Eden (AU / VSTi)

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tom2000
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Joined: 01/04/2011

Hello.

Maybe you think that there are millions of AU Synths out there... but,

i really like to see the EDEN as AU audio units Plug-in (maybe as VSTi, too) in my Logic 9. i did not see any faster virtual instrument to programm cool sounds from scratch for years... even the simple implementation of a sampler is unbelievable and versatile.

then it would be much easier to export songs for "on the go" or load the mobil songs right into logic.

what do you think? anyone?

T2

Blip Interactive
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Joined: 04/05/2010

Yes this has been mooted before, and I'm still up for it at some point. I need to collect more data on what people want before deciding how to do it. A couple of immediate considerations would be:

- Use ReWire or a VST/AU architecture?
- Provide the whole of NanoStudio as a single 'instrument', or have multiple instances of single Eden/TRG-16 instruments?

I've never done anything in this area before and haven't yet done the research so I don't know much about the code implications of these choices. I read that ReWire splits the UI and the audio device but I don't know if this split is conceptual or physical - if it's the latter, it could mean a large amount of work.

Personally I never got on much with Rewire - I like having everything contained in the DAW, but others seemed keen on it. Similarly, having the whole of NanoStudio contained as a single instrument seemed to make more sense to me since it'd be possible to load a project file straight in and go, but other posts such as yours seem to request just the synth on its own.

Feel free to discuss ...

abimas
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Joined: 01/20/2011

Hi there
Personally, for me works better to have Virtual Instruments within the DAW as AU, in this way I don't have to deal with the manual, specific functionality of the sequencer of the VI, switching between app's, taking care of computer performance... even though these are a relative easy taks.

I'm a Reason user and only 'cause it's Reason I make ReWire connections but it's not completely integrated, so you have to invest a little time to configure or setup your session with the DAW. Now Reason have its own Multitrack (Record) and have begun a marked separation between them and DAWs.

In my experience it's faster, easier and a standard practice to use AU integrated to your DAW. But I think my dear friend the decision is upon market preferences and time/cost criteria, maybe a survey could help!

Aaaa of course I have to tell you I'm a happy user of nanostudio, if in the next version you add Multitrack Audio to Nanostudio (iphone, ipad) you will be the King!!

Best Regards!!

tom2000
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Joined: 01/04/2011

as i understood, an AU plug-in might be much easier, because n XCode you "just" paste the EDEN audio code over i from iphone template to AU code.
separate EDEN and TRG units would be much more flexible i think. I like to have it under the DAW roof instead of fiddling around in 2 apps.

in the mean time, i checked out another opponent of nanostudio on iphone, but that one sucks because of interface issues. no more fun after 2hours... Nanostudio simply rocks!

Philipp
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Joined: 05/14/2011

Hello, hope to revive this hhread.

Yes, to see Eden as a VST - plugin would be great. About the above:
I personally would like to have a single Eden-plugin. Not the whole NanoStudio. It would be great if it was avaliable, but I think Eden is the most significant part about NanoStudio, the sequencer will be replaced by the DAW's sequencer anyways and the Drumpads are no more and no less than a sample player after all. It also becomes an issue of cpu capacity if you want to launch severeal instances, I suppose.

Another reason (here I can only speak for myself, but I think most producers who try to seriously produce music will agree): I don't really try to do a whole production in nano-Studio, I use it more or less to play around and get ideas down when on the road. Later on I want to transfer these as easily as possible to my DAW. It works fine with the midi-files. But it would be even greater if I could also work on new sounds on the road which I could then use with full flexibility in my DAW-Productions (sampling Eden is just not the real thing).
So after all: Having a VST of Eden with the ability to read exportet instrument files from the iphone-version would ad a whole new dimension of working possibilities to nanostudio.

About the file format: I'm not much into that. AU only works on Mac's, so you'd close out all windows users.
.dll works only for windows. VST works mostly on both machines (as far as I know), so it seems to be generally the best solution.
If the above is true, that creating an AU-Version is easy, you should first go for this, and see how people pick it up. I'd be happy with it anyways, as I'm a Mac-User.

Hope you will fulfill our wish soon.

PS: It would be great if one could do the whole file exchange thing via that file exchange menu in iTunes. Fiddeling around with setting up a network for NanoSync has always been sort of a thumbs down to me.

Cheers, and thanks for the many fun hours with Nanostudio.

Blip Interactive
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Joined: 04/05/2010

Cheers for the info. I certainly think that VST+AU is the way to go over ReWire in terms of engineering effort. I can see the use for it falling into two camps - those like yourself who have got the MIDI file but also need the synth because the MIDI file is only half the story, and those who just want the whole project running on their DAW with minimal fuss. I'm actually wondering if both bases can be covered with the same plugin - for example, what you're asking for could really be thought of as a project using only one synth.

Philipp
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Joined: 05/14/2011

Hey, thanks for the answer.

What do you mean with this ReWire thing? Does that mean the user would have to use this Propellerhead Rewire thing to integrate the PlugIn into a DAW (sync it) or is this just some technical aspect. If possible I'd definitely go for a launch-inside-daw-solution.

About the Eden vs. full NS trouble:
I can only share my thoughts, I'm not saying that I have the best solution, or that I know what most users will prefer.
The reason why I thought Eden as a single VST would be the best is because I have been using NanoStudio for about six months now, and meanwhile always wished for an Eden VST to transport the sounds to the computer.

On the other hand, I can totally see how awesome it could be to have a full and flexible version of NanoStudio, to work over the full project and I guess there will be many people who will love this.

My personal oppinion, though is, that the magic of NanoStudio is based on the fact that it is a SERIOUS way to make music on a freaking mobile device, anywhere and anytime. If you put the full thing to the computer, it will loose some of this spirit, because there it will have to compete with all the other DAWs out there (and this battle can't be won). Eden as a single synth, though is a very fine, interesting and unique synth, that will find its own corner among all those synths-plugins out there.

I guess most people develop their own unique way of using production softwares, depending on what kind of music they make, the way they make it, what they focus on, what they know of the software or how they produced previously etc.
I can't speak for others, but I suppose there are two groups of NS-users, those who only make music on their iDevice for the joy of it (they are probably happy with the audio export function) and those, who like to prepare things on the road for later DAW-work, those will probably prefer to integrate the created parts (midi / sound) in their DAW-project in the same manner they integrate other Midi- / Audio- sources.
I for example make heavy use of different effects to process audio. Had I several tracks of Eden coming from one instance of NanoStudio, I'd be forced to pass all of them through the same channel, I guess. Also I'm playing live, this means I want to be working on the sequences in real time. So in that case Ableton Live would be my sequencer of choice, then a full version of nano studio would only get in my way.

Thanks for your attention. Again, these are only my personal thoughts.
Would it be a lot of work to create two separate VSTs? If you can reuse the code for an AU-Version, it shouldn't be too bad. If you had to transcribe it to make a VST-Version, you'd have to transcribe the eden-code anyways.

Hope to hear about your advances soon.

Philipp

Philipp
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Joined: 05/14/2011

Hello, are there any news on the project?
So far I have always been using the NS generated Midifiles only. But yesterday I tried to create multisamples of an Eden generated instrument. The result was horrible. We neeeeeeeed a VST of Eden... =)

Ruben.cc
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Joined: 10/23/2010

You can already use the desktop version of NanoStudio as (sort of) a module inside Logic. I've been using it for quite some time within my 'projects' (read: jamming along and doing nothing productive).

First you need to activate the IAC Driver in Mac OS X MIDI Studio (in the Audio MIDI Setup). Enable the "Device is online" and you will get an "IAC Bus 1", "IAC Bus 2" etc...

Then set NanoStudio to receive MIDI on "Apple Inc. - IAC Bus 1" and add an "External MIDI" track in Logic Studio. Set the port of the track in Logic to the "IAC Bus 1" and MIDI will go directly from Logic to the desktop version of NanoStudio using this IAC Bus.

Now you need to re-route the audio from NanoStudio. You can use tools like "JackPilot" or "SoundFlower" to have the audio from NanoStudio go to a virtual sound channel rather than your default soundcard and then add an audio channel strip in Logic accepting input from that channel or use it as an insert on some bus.

Using this setup, you can have Logic control NanoStudio and tweak the audio from NanoStudio using all available Logic functions and plugins. It almost functions like a regular AU Unit this way. Since NanoStudio accepts controllers and other MIDI crap you can use all available goodies that can be controlled over MIDI in NanoStudio.

So basically you just need just two tracks in Logic to use NanoStudio; a MIDI track that will send MIDI to NanoStudio over the IAC Bus that comes standard with OS X and an Audio track that receives the audio signal back from NanoStudio to Logic using tools like SoundFlower or JackPilot.

Of course you don't NEED to remap the audio back to Logic and can just as well have Logic and NanoStudio both send their own audio to your soundcard, but then you cannot render your final project with the NanoStudio audio included or tweak the NanoStudio audio with the Logic Mixer of filters.

Only one minor drawback using this setup; when you want to render your final 'project' to an audio-file, you need to either do this in realtime (because NanoStudio isn't an AU Unit that will render it's sound digitally to Logic) or you need to first record the NanoStudio MIDI tracks to a Logic Audio track and mute the MIDI track (but keep it for editing sake).

Hope this keeps you DAW users satisfied until there will be a real AU/VSTi version of NanoStudio. :-)

Stiksi
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Joined: 11/21/2010

I just did this on the weekend to use Mainstage (that app is a steal) in Live and didn't even think about using it on Nanostudio. But this is great! I know Eden isn't really meant to be a production-level synth but it's so damn easy to use and sounds great if you stay within reason. I'm not sure but if I write knob automation in Live, I might get smoother transitions between values. That I will have to try soon!

georgyk
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Joined: 06/04/2011

This explanation of how to use Eden with Logic should be a sticky. It is *brilliant*.

syrupcore
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Joined: 09/26/2010

What a great write up. Added it to the FAQ/Resources thread.

NS Forum has quality content going on today!

Flexmeister
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Joined: 04/03/2011

Just to chime in: It works with Ableton Live as well.

In NanoStudio on the Mac, I choose my Keyboard as a MIDI Import Device. In Ableton I just create a MIDI track and under "MIDI From" I choose my keyboard.

Done.

Pasi Kettunen
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Joined: 01/13/2012

@Ruben.cc: You can already use the desktop version of NanoStudio as (sort of) a module inside Logic.
...

Thank you very much for this! I spent hours trying to figure out how to do this. Should have checked here first!

Still had some difficulties though, but it works now. First, the MIDI notes begun to circulate. I had a Physical Input in Logic's environment, and a line from its Sum output to Sequencers input (thru some other things). The IAC Bus shows inside the Physical Input box, so I had to remove the line. To use my keyboard, have to draw another line directly from there, not from the Sum.

Secondly, couldn't get the sound back to audio track. Now I have Soundflower as a system audio output, and as a Input device in Logic's audio devices. Logic's Output device remains as Built-in Output, so I can hear what I'm playing :)

Awesome!

Pasi Kettunen
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Joined: 01/13/2012

You can even automate with this thing! Of course, Logic doesn't get anything back from Nanostudio, but you can make MIDI CC automation curves with some other controller or just draw them.

Witch leads to another question: I can setup a controller like TouchOSC or something to send correct MIDI CC messages, but then there will be MIDI CC messages and no automation curves. Is there a way to convert them to normal automation curves? Maybe this goes beond the scope of this forum...

Well, under the Piano roll, the MIDI CC messages can be seen as curves in the Hyper editor. Maybe this isn't so bad after all.

And about the TouchOSC, I tried to add a page (in the editor on Mac) to LogicPad template for NanoStudio, it turned out that it will not perform nicely. There is fixed 5 pages for Logic, you can add the sixth but if you add OSC controls on it they will not function properly. MIDI controls will (thru MidiBridge) but I'd like to have the Stop, Play etc buttons there like on the other pages.

I guess in the beginning TouchOSC "teaches" Logic witch control is witch, and that is fixed. Oh dear...

Back to the topic, I guess using the current Mac/PC version this way isn't an easy task for average musician. So I think people would happily pay 50 EUR or some for AU version of NanoStudio. Especially GarageBand users, from the box there isn't any decent synth you can tweak with.

Matt: how about the Mac App Store? Isn't there protection agains piracy of some kind?

Blip Interactive
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Joined: 04/05/2010

I have looked into the possibility of an AU version a few times. Although it's possible to convert the app, a lot of changes would need to be made and they wouldn't be pretty. It would be a lot easier to build in support from the beginning, so maybe on the next thing I do, whatever that is.

Pasi Kettunen
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Joined: 01/13/2012

I did this using Logic and NanoStudio together as described here:

The "mickeymouse" lead at the beginning, and again at around 2:08 is the Ravey Davey of NanoStudio :)

Other synths are standard synths of Logic Express (including that sampled Yamaha piano!), and Alchemy Player (free)

And Baby Scratch and Scratch Pro ;)

unclejambo
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Joined: 10/24/2010

I'd kill for the rewire option personally. It'd be great to hack out ideas on NS then rewire it multi channel into reason for further tweaking.

joachim_s
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Joined: 04/20/2011

Is this possible for Cubase?

radion_savlon
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Joined: 10/10/2013

for all those people who use PCS, these two apps would probably make is so...........

http://jackaudio.org/

Midi Yoke - http://www.midiox.com/

radion_savlon
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Joined: 10/10/2013

VST is the way to go, and to provide the complete Nanostudio as a single 'instrument' with multiple audio outs.....so you could use your DAW to add effects to each mixer track seperately.....

This would allow the nanostudio user to add a more professional finish to his tracks using a DAW while having the pleasure of using Nanostudio to compose the songs.

Having a single Eden synth as an instrument is pretty useless.............and would not really integrate into the nanostudio workflow.

If a user wanted a single Eden synth as a VST he could just use the full program VST and only use a single track...

Re-wire is not as 'mainstream' as VST....and only a few programs support it.....(Reason, Maxmsp, Ableton)

jayteee
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Joined: 04/13/2013

I would like to use my own vsti's in nano studio plain and simple. I read the interview page but no matter what was said there is no results. Thank you nano is cool but would love to see it go much further

Stiksi
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Joined: 11/21/2010

Nanostudio is pretty much an iOS app and the desktop version is just a free preview of what you're going to get. VSTs don't really fit into that concept. Developing it further separately just for the desktop would probably drive the price to a range that would be prohibitive and stop developement of the iOS app completely. There's only one Blip.