Best NS1 life raft device

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kitejan
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Joined: 04/05/2011

Hi - just need some recommendations. What is the best (and cheapest!) iOS device & iOS version for running NS1 on?

I've currently got a iPad Mini 2 (iOS 10.3.3) and iPod Touch 6G (iOS 10.3.3) and I wont be able to stop the inevitable for ever - not least i also use the iPad for work and for security concerns there are good reasons why going on to 11.3.1 will happen eventually.

So I was thinking about "something cheap from eBay" - and I thought about:
1) iPod Touch 4G - I had one of these and I know it works fine. And I can reuse the Tascam Microphone attachment again which would be nice. But small screen, cant really connect Midi controllers, etc.
2) iPad Mini 1 - this seems a better option - not least because I can use the CCK to connect midi controllers - but worried about the performance on it's latest iOS (is that iOS9?) might be a bit grim - and I have no idea how NS1 will perform (although guessing it will be fine).

I know some people swear by the iPad 4 - just wondering if people have actually used the iPad Mini 1 and how they find it for NS?

Thanks

syrupcore
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Joined: 09/26/2010

I still run it on an iPad 3 without any problems. If I were going to buy a dedicated NS1 device I'd be aiming for two things: 1) newest device I could afford as it will, presumably, last the longest and 2) a device with iOS 8 on it. iOS 9 broke the sweet AudioBus->Eden sampling setup.

syrupcore
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Joined: 09/26/2010

Er, check that #2 before jumping. You might not be able to get the older version of Audiobus that's required. I think SlamCut still has this set up working on a device. Perhaps he can chime in with the actual version numbers and you could send an email to Michael @ Audiobus to verify it's still available for download on older devices.

Slam-Cut
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Joined: 09/07/2011

I’m not sure I can chime in with anything helpful. I have an iPhone 4G on iOS 6.1.3 which has Audiobus on it, but I couldn’t tell what version of Audiobus. That is not much help. I like the “sweet” workflow with AudioBus, but I have found that I don’t use it - just saving that set up ‘just in case’. On my bigger screen devices with iOS 10.3, I use AudioBus to AudioShare then Copy/Paste and I find it is acceptable most of the time. I hope NS2 will still support Copy/Paste. I would say the benefit of iOS 10 (which is required minimum iOS for some synth apps) is worth the extra step of using AudioShare, while still being able to use NS1 & Alchemy. What I wonder about is if one buys an older device that has an old iOS on it, can one still put apps like NS1 & Alchemy on those devices (assuming you have already paid for those apps)?

iTunes asked if I wanted to update the iOS on my 4G to 9.3.5. If Apple will keep older iOS available for older devices, they obviously have the ability to let us pick our iOS for our devices, but they stubbornly insist on pushing the newest iOS to us. I get why that is easier for them when dealing with millions of users. I have other devices on iOS 10 that I keep the WiFi disconnected so I don’t accidentally press the wrong button when Apple prompts to upgrade to iOS 11.

Blip Interactive
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Joined: 04/05/2010

If it's phones, get an iPhone 5. It's still their best design to date IMO.

tom_tm
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Joined: 06/29/2011

Yep. Still on an iPhone 5 here too!

Blip Interactive
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Joined: 04/05/2010

I got a second-hand 6s for testing the 64 bit version (I wanted the latest I could get which still had a 3.5mm jack). Feels cheap, although for the original owner I'm sure it wasn't :)

By comparison, the iPhone 5 looks like the geometrically perfect monolith from 2001, even with the slight layer of dust it's gained sitting on my monitor speaker. A 'less is more' design classic.

kitejan
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Joined: 04/05/2011

Thanks for the advice - funny enough I was wondering about an iPhone - the 4s actually (cheap!). I was wanting a device that cant run iOS11 (so I dont have to worry about clicking "OK" by mistake to the iOS update nag-ware) but does work well on its last iOS version (unike my experience with the iPad 2 and iOS 9 - or whatever the last version was - is was awful). When you say "iPhone 5" I take it you mean the original 5 and not the 5S (which does run iOS11 - I have a work one that I keep bang upto date).

I know I'm supposed to have "finished" all my NS1 projects - but the reality is a) I have loads (and I mean loads) of unfinished/unreleased NS tracks that I might *want* to finish at some point, and b) I kind of gravitate to NS1 if I want a quick "fix" of actual sequencing (rather than live jamming/improv/making-it-up-as-i-go-along thing I do with AUM). NS has come out of retirement more times than a 1970's rock band with a large tax bill.....

The question is simply do I want the small form factor of an iPhone/iPod touch (and especially with the old 30pin connector as I've still got the Tascam microphone), or the screen real-estate of an iPad.

Either because I'm mega organised, or mega disorganised I actually have all my application .IPA files backed up in a folder on the computer - 2012 versions of Nanostudio, Addictive, Audiobus 2 etc. I suspect that I might struggle getting them onto the iOS device given the changes to iTunes - but I have the files:-)

Anyway - definitely life in the old NS1 yet. Put it this way: even though I have had Ableton Live 9 Suite for more than 2 years I have yet to actually complete - let alone release - a single track with it.

Blip Interactive
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Joined: 04/05/2010

Yes, the iPhone 5 won't pester you for an iOS 11 update. I think the 5s will.

There's also an iPod Touch of a similar generation, but they seem to be a similar price to the iPhone 5 on eBay.

I quite like the iPad mini although I've completely lost track of the different models. Wikipedia is my go-to in this case as it has some great pages on iDevices including tables which show their specs and highest version of iOS they'll support.

kitejan
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Joined: 04/05/2011

I really like the iPad mini form factor (I've been using my iPad mini 2 since January 2014 for all the music stuff and its still good to use - on iOS 10.3.3 of course :-) ). Hence why the Mini 1 seems a good bet.

I have an iPod Touch 6th Generation - which is great (just battery is poor) - except I have to keep ignoring the iOS 11 updates. And I know that an iPod Touch 4th Generation would perfect (most of my 2011/2012 music was done only on an iPod).

I think a lot depends on finding a really good deal - but I can afford to wait for now.

Slam-Cut
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Joined: 09/07/2011

“even though I have had Ableton Live 9 Suite for more than 2 years I have yet to actually complete - let alone release - a single track with it.” - kitejan

I did the same thing with Reaper, but I am determined to get into that program someday and actually make something with it. Maybe after NS2 has been out for a while.

kitejan
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Joined: 04/05/2011

"I did the same thing with Reaper..."

At least Reaper is a lot cheaper! I was so sure I would "click" with Ableton I went the full Monty with Suite and a APC Mini controller. Its slightly better now I'm using a Push 1 - but achieving things is not really happening. Well - I'm working on a album that has a lot of iOS sounds, Bastl Kastle mini-modular-noise thing, and so on all sequenced with Ableton. Problem is I was listening to a mix of it today and I realized is sounded like something i did back in 2013 using iVCS and NS1. So I had a listen to the 2013 album and a) what I'm doing now is very very similar - *too* similar if you get my meaning, and b) the NS1 album sounds about 100 times better. Not sure why/how that is - but I *think* in Ableton I have so many options and FX and stuff I end up throwing too much at it so everything gets lost. Having fewer options in NS1 definitely seems to help me "keep it simple".

Oh well - maybe in a few weeks I get to play with NS2 and I can fail to finish things in that as well :-)

Blip Interactive
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Joined: 04/05/2010

EVERYONE should buy Reaper, it's priced so reasonably and incredible value for money. Very powerful, customizable and extendable.

Not everyone will get on with it - but they should still buy it anyway.

nano
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Joined: 03/06/2016

uh oh , finally i have found fullscreen multirow
custozoomable midi keyboard from east to west ..

" expressionpad "

http://soho.43936.n8.nabble.com/style-tp274p292.html

Slam-Cut
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Joined: 09/07/2011

I struggled and finally succeeded in resisting using ‘cheaper’ in my previous post. It was hard to do, but I didn’t want to throw salt on your expensive Abelton Live wound. Ouch!

The Blipster is right again! Reaper is a great value!! I’ll continue upgrading and trying to learn Reaper until I one day succeed.

syrupcore
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Joined: 09/26/2010

> EVERYONE should buy Reaper, it's priced so reasonably and incredible value for money. Very powerful, customizable and extendable.

Totally agree that Reaper is just an absurd amount of value for the money. And it has a boss mode pricing model to boot. That it's so "powerful, customizable and extendable" is both the beauty and the beast of it though. There are just too many fucking options presented at once. In every scenario. When I can find what I want, I so appreciate having all of that power. When I can't find the seemingly-simple-thing-I-want-to-do-right-now, I curse it.

I so dig the customization though. Custom shortcuts, macros and the ability to tweak commands in code are just beautiful things for me. But for non-nerds? And for me when I'm not feeling nerdy? It can just be way too much everything.

I would love to support a kickstarter campaign to fund Reaper UX research and implementation. At it simplest, perhaps an experiment: collect analytics on the functions triggered in which contexts (which view, where's the mouse, how many tracks are there, what kind of tracks...). Then, offer a new 'simple' mode. In the menus, right click menus, visible icons, etc, hide everything except the top N used functions by default with the option to hold the CTRL down to see the full monty. Then, collect analytics again. Did people have to use CTRL too often for some function? Make it visible again by default.

In cases where CTRL-to-see-all just wouldn't make sense, offer both simple and advanced modes via toggle button. Thinking things like the export dialog. If you just want to bounce a tune, holy-too-many-options. If you want to bounce by markers or regions, rename things with some sort of pattern, add things to the render queue, it's **amazing**. Let that be advanced mode though.

Blip Interactive
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Joined: 04/05/2010

Come one syrupcore, you're a coder - you know deep down that Reaper tickles your half code/half music brain.

> collect analytics on the functions triggered

... and a web coder at that :)

tom_tm
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Joined: 06/29/2011

"EVERYONE should buy Reaper,"

You know that only Reaper can completely customise the piano roll for microtonal scales? Try doing that in Logic! But I do like Logic's new function that guesses with excellent accuracy both tempo as well as time signature you're playing in. Would love to see a similar thing in a future NS2 update.

tom_tm
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Joined: 06/29/2011

"When I can't find the seemingly-simple-thing-I-want-to-do-right-now, I curse it."

And there's also that too. This, I agree with Syrupcore. I know Logic inside out, but I still tear my hair out when I power up reaper and try and figure out what the fuck I'm doing!

Slam-Cut
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Joined: 09/07/2011

syrupcore: if you kick start the Kickstarter campaign, I’ll kick in some $.

A ‘simple mode’ to learn the basics would be nice. And I just need a lot of time in front of my laptop, which always seems elusive.

Blip Interactive
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Joined: 04/05/2010

Here's an idea : Use a Reaktor like approach where you start with a user friendly front-end UI and then progressively drill down the layers to the level you feel comfortable with, with Reaper script right at the bottom layer.

Or that could make it worse. Jeez, it's a good job it's not me who's got to think about stuff like this :)

Slam-Cut
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Joined: 09/07/2011

An even better idea is get/learn/use NS2 and I’ll have learned even more about music production than I did on NS1 and I won’t need the tard-level newbie UI. :-)

...I’ll still kick in on it though

syrupcore
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Joined: 09/26/2010

I like that idea, Matt. With that many features, I can't even imagine trying to do actually do a UX overhaul.

@slam-cut, I'm not wanting Reaper to be dumbed-down, just more streamlined for some basic DAW use cases. If you just wanna record a few tracks and add some fades, you're still presented with the same UI for doing super advanced editing and mixing sessions. There's just no "hierarchy of needs" in the UI. It's like every feature every user ever wanted has been (kindly) implemented and simply appended to some menu somewhere. The crazy thing, considering how jammed packed every menu seems to be, is just how many really useful features *aren't* available directly via a menu—you have to use the action list. I actually do almost everything via the actions list because it's easier to search by name than it is to troll menus.

I'm not complaining. It's stupidly great for $40 bucks or whatever. It's more that I feel like a lot of great work is kinda lost and I think it deserves some UX love (and 4x the user base)!

One thing that might help a tiny bit is to use the OSX style 'Hold Option while a menu is visible to see alternate options for some items'. For instance, in Finder, if you right click on a folder the first option is "Open in a new tab" but if you hold option the same menu item changes to "Open in a new window". In the item right click context menu, for instance, a lot of the cut/copy/split options could default to the 'most used' variation and then offer the alternates once alt (or something) is held.

image  
tom_tm
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Joined: 06/29/2011

I had a go with LMMS the other day. Check that out for ease of use! And MuLab too. Wicked DAW. But alas no microtonal support.

Slam-Cut
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Joined: 09/07/2011

@syrupcore: yeah, I get what you’re suggesting. My experience with Reaper is pretty much along the lines of what you are trying to help. I’ve been overwhelmed with options I don’t need and it slows everything down. It’s like having the cockpit of a modern Boeing 747 jet when all I need is the simple controls of a P-51 Mustang, but that the 747 options would be available via things like long press. May not be the best analogy - haven’t had coffee yet this morning.

@tom_tm: hahaha!! You’re like a Monty Python character: “And now for something completely different. Microtonal Support!” Makes me giggle. I don’t even know what I would do with microtonal support. Is it just to create unlimited scales?

tom_tm
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"Is it just to create unlimited scales?"

Careful Mr Slam! I'm more Father Ted than Python! But having said that, would you prefer the 5 minute argument or the 15 minute one?

Yes and no. Specific non 12-tet scales. I really believe that we have come to a dead end with the quest for a 'new sound', especially in terms of synthesis. However, and what we haven't done yet really is to explore non-western, non standard chromatic scales, and the scales I have in mind can evoke emotions, many of which can create a feeling of alienation and other-worldliness. Some even claim to have experience out-of-the-body effects while listening to non-western scales. A good place to start IMHO is with Wendy Carlos, and her microtonal masterpiece, 'Beauty in the Beast'. Here is a sample from that recording:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2j1gy2

Slam-Cut
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Haven’t seen any of Father Ted, but I’ll take you word for it.

I listened to the Carlos track - it’s not my cup of tea. Switch on Bach certainly is more to my liking. I guess microtonal stuff might be useful to me for cinematic uses (horror films & tension) or in constructing exotic Asian scales, but I personally don’t like chromaticism for regular listening Glad to know more about it though, so thanks for the link.

tom_tm
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"Haven’t seen any of Father Ted"

Then you're in for a treat!

tom_tm
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*Having said that, hope you're not Catholic....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15ybOCSqFco

Blip Interactive
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Joined: 04/05/2010

You just broke the most basic first dinner party rules - never bring up religion or politics.

I did once but I think I got away with it (sorry, couldn't resist that quote in thread which also references Python ...)

Slam-Cut
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*Having said that, hope you're not Catholic....

Parents turned me into a Catholic.
...But I got better...

Another classic line. Couldn’t help myself.