Back since a long time - Audiobus and Midi

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yentz
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Joined: 10/15/2011

Hi,

after being away for more than 5 years I remembered this great little app and found my old ipad 4 to use it on my daily commute.
Now there have been a lot of updates. I have no clue about ios music at all (using a studio with hardware and daw) and I am curious to know if it is possible to send midi out of nanostudio and get audio from other apps (sorry for maybe asking dumb questions) or maybe cath the audiostream from nanostudio and other apps in a global mixing app?
Are there any good tutorials on Nanostudio and Audiobus?
I read that there are still plans for Nanostudio 2. Is this for real? Would be awesome. Tried lots of other apps back then but none of them was working the way I expected them to regarding the workflow, cluttered userinterfaces and just not useable for use with a touchscreen.
Also is there a way to export the single tracks as audio files for use in a daw later except muting all tracks and bouncing one by one?
Feels good to be back already.

Cheers,
Jens

Slam-Cut
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Joined: 09/07/2011

Welcome back Yentz!
Rule #1: DO NOT UPGRADE TO iOS 11!!!!!

Upgrading to iOS 11 will make NS not work on that device. With iOS 11 all apps are now required to be 64 bit instead of 32 bit, so since NS1 is 32 bit it can’t work on devices with iOS 11. Keep your iPad on whatever iOS it had.

NS2 is real and although delayed it will come out this year. My guess is some time this summer. NS2 will have MIDI out, but NS1 does not. NS1 has MIDI in, so you can use a MIDI controller. NS2 is supposed to launch without audio tracks, but these will be added as an IAP a handful (?) of months after the initial release of NS2.

The iOS platform has been maturing as a music production environment over the last handful of years that you’ve been gone, but it is still behind the desktop DAW platforms, so there are various work-arounds and a variety of apps needed to acomplish things that are perhaps easier on PC/Mac DAW. iOS 9 broke the functionality of Audiobus with NS1. If you still have an older iOS, keep it. It is a little easier to use AB with NS (iOS 8 or earlier I think), dumping audio into TRG pads right from AB. I’m using iOS 10 on my iPad Air, and what I do is record some audio using AB and another synth app recording audio into AudioShare, then in AudioShare copy the audio (lower left button) to the General Pasteboard, go to a NS TRG pad and press load/paste and then (important!) immediately rename the General Pasteboard file to something unique (like name of preset & app it comes from) before finishing the load into a TRG pad. This is a bit tedious, but it works well for things like pads. I might set up a TRG with 16 separate one note evolving pad notes (if I need 2 octaves) and then play it like an instrument or just draw notes in the piano roll editor. This will work well for other instruments as well. And if you want to play phrases into a single TRG pad, then press play in NS so your sequence starts and then switch to an app in AB to play the part, which is recorded into AudioShare (or similar app), then copied into a TRG pad. You can easily trim the phrase inside of NS TRG audio editor. There is no real sync between NS and AB, but having the NS sequence playing while you record takes is helpful.

NS2 will be much closer to full function DAW. MIDI out will be a big help, as well as AUv3 versions of synth apps from within NS2, and for non-AUv3 apps or hadware/Desktop synths one can re-create a synth/instrument with the multi-sampling possible in NS2’s Obsidian.

I don’t have NS1 with me now, but as I remember it is possible to save the audio as separate stems, either all in one big batch of single audio tracks or just one at a time. You can also export the MIDI file to use in another DAW. Check out the thread on NS2 with screen shots and discussion of its features. Hope that helps!

PS: DO NOT UPGRADE TO iOS 11!!!!!

yentz
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Joined: 10/15/2011

Thanks for helping. Would be awesome to have ns2 at one point. Until then I might givve Cubasis a try. Seems quite good except not being able to sidechain and create subgroups.

Slam-Cut
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Joined: 09/07/2011

I haven't tried Cubasis. Some people here on the forum have tried it and not had much good to say about it. Still, it probably could be useful in a quilt-work style iOS workflow, where you get various different sounds and FX from many different apps and stitch them all together. It depends a lot upon the individual preferences and the style of music. Good luck with it. The only other iOS DAW that seems to be complete enough as a 'desktop equivalent' is Auria Pro. It's expensive for iOS apps, but still a good value compared to PC/Mac. It requires a pretty fast device though, so you may check the requirements of the app before purchasing to see if it will work on your device. Some people also really like Korg Gadget. I think it has some nice modern synths but the loop-style composition is less intuitive for me (I prefer linear sequencing) and it is really not easy to get sounds out of Gadget to use in NS1, which is still my default 'DAW'.

yentz
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Joined: 10/15/2011

yeah just found out that cubasis doesnt allow using directories for samples. not sure how anyone would be able to use it properly.
checked auria but somehow i didnt get how to creat midi tracks, choose instruments etc.
going back to ns1 for now i think. very limited but working well.
hopefully ns2 will be released at one pont.

nano
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Joined: 03/06/2016

you can manage ..
files app > on my ipad > cubasis files

yentz
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Joined: 10/15/2011

Nice, gonna try this later.
Thanks :)

nano
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Joined: 03/06/2016

cubasis project > save as = export as zip
" now you can jam "
return to " saved as " = import zip (audioshare-on my ipad-cubasis)
crazy , but ok .. ;)

yentz
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Joined: 10/15/2011

Sorry for maybe just being dumb. I don't really get it.
Using a file manager I can copy files and folders to cubasis audio folder which then are accessible but all in one big list.
So you say I can save a file then add samples (in folders) in this file and have the folders accessible when opening the project in cubasis?
I know about audioshare but was wondering how for example to map a couple of sounds to a sampler. Is this possible or do I have to do it one by one?

nano
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Joined: 03/06/2016

files by apple OR any file manager with document picker

swipe down to create folder ...

long tap on file OR empty space = menu

http://soho.43936.n8.nabble.com/ios-music-apps-tp269p286.html

nano
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Joined: 03/06/2016
yentz
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Joined: 10/15/2011

Well if this was released at one point it would probably solve all issues I am having with IOS music production. But who knows when this is going to happen....

instinctive
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Joined: 07/23/2011

The Duke Nukem Forever of Music apps ;)

Slam-Cut
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Joined: 09/07/2011

Certainly there is room to joke about such a long delay, but I am really confident that NS2 will be released this year based on the screen shots and the sample tracks created with it. There were likely issues that came up that Matt decided to fix before release and in so doing assumed the headache on himself and saved us from dealing with headaches. Or something like that. I'd guess sometime this summer we could see the launch.

I do agree with you Yentz that NS2 will solve nearly all the issues I am having with iOS music production as well. I anticipate that it will be a ‘game changer’ for me.

instinctive
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Joined: 07/23/2011

@Slam-Cut: Yes and I wasn't meaning to offend anyone or anything, it just reminded me of that in that moment... I have lots of respect for NanoStudio and Matt, and NS1 is still the only truly useful "all in one" music production environment for iOS even in 2018. All other options (and believe me, I've tried them all) have some kind of weird showstopper problem.

yentz
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Joined: 10/15/2011

Depends on what you are doing. For Techouse subgroups and sidechain is essential.

dendy
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Joined: 07/28/2010

> NS1 is still the only truly useful "all in one" music production environment for iOS even in 2018. All other options (and believe me, I've tried them all) have some kind of weird showstopper problem.

This ! Is ! T.R.U.T.H. !

syrupcore
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Joined: 09/26/2010

> Depends on what you are doing. For Techouse subgroups and sidechain is essential.

Extremely useful? Absolutely yes. Essential? Absolutely not. ;)

Jeppan74
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Joined: 03/01/2012

@instinctive: That Duke nukem reference made me lol :D
But I´m pretty sure NS2 will be better than Gearbox version of the game ;)

Stiksi
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Joined: 11/21/2010

"Depends on what you are doing. For Techouse subgroups and sidechain is essential."

Sidechain is just volume automation that reacts to a sound source. Writing a volume automation pattern that corresponds to your kick is super easy and probably takes less time than setting up the compressor. A compressor just makes finetuning the effect easier.

On the other hand, the volume automation pattern is super precise, won't get fooled by your kick fills like the compressor which just slams on the brakes for the rest of the mix until the fill is over, and you have complete control of the shape and nature of the ducking. Pretty much half the time I've used sidechaining, I've ended up taking it off and replacing it with volume automation (usually on a gainstaging effect like Live's Utility) because it's just given better results.

yentz
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Joined: 10/15/2011

I know but in techhouse you not only sidechain the bass to the kick (quite often the bass does not play on the quarters as you can take the kick as a note in the bass pattern if the kick is heavy and subby) but lots of other stuff to each other and with good release settings of the compressors the groove is created (besides shuffle and syncopation). When sidechaing anything to the kick I usually create an extra kick pattern (muted) so the comp keeps pumpin even when the main kickpattern is muted. Extra Kicks go on a seperate track anyway.
I doubt verry much that it is more easy to program an automation even for such a simple task as sidechaning the bass to the kick. the way the curve works (not just the time constants when it is loud and when not) has a massive impact on the groove. programming such a curve and then noticing that it has to start a bit sooner oder doing adjustments seems very fiddlely to my but I might be wrong. I suppose this is one of the main reasons to use stuff like vari mu compressors (for normal compression duties) as the adjustment of the level isn't linear or logarithmic but heavily depends on the source matrerial and the levelling of the compressor sounds nice (talking about groups here not transient design).
A small note to sidechaining the bass to the kick. If tuned properly I find it sometimes useful instead of using a compressor for sidechaining using a dynamic eq with sidechain to just get rid of the bass's sub parts so you can hear the bass's top and the kick's body & transient without a way too loud sub part from the two subparts adding up (or if not uned properly doing weird stuf from too loud from not there and anything in beetween).

Obviously there is no right or wrong in music but from what I can tell the genre really does live of those things and most of my collegues who are doing tech house are working similary. Maybe stuff like dirty bird and similar sounding releases use a bit less of it as it is quite reduced but once gone into using chopped breaks I find it absolutely essential for glueing stuff together without loosing focus on the main elements of the mix and giving a nice groove.

Slam-Cut
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Joined: 09/07/2011

@instinctive: "@Slam-Cut: Yes and I wasn't meaning to offend anyone or anything, it just reminded me of that in that moment..."

Yes, I completely understood that. I only wrote what I did so that I wasn't misconstrued as implying that we can't joke about the long delay for NS2. I just try to keep people's spirit up for the launch and hope that people don't just get frustrated by the delays and forget about NS2 altogether.

I have no input on the side-chaining sub thread as I have never done it. I still don't get what all that hype is about.
Carry on.

instinctive
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Joined: 07/23/2011

Slam-Cut: Sidechaining is about one instrument's sound affecting another unrelated instrument's sound. It is mostly done with compressors that don't take the actual input signal as reference for the compression parameters, but another, unrelated sound (for example, a compressor on a bassline is affected by the kickdrum on another channel). This is a core element of advanced EDM, and poorly understood by many, especially novice EDM "producers".

I agree it's important, but yeah, it can mostly be emulated by automation, though it is tedious and the process is not as inspiring.

Slam-Cut
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Joined: 09/07/2011

I'm familiar with the concept and how it is created, since it comes up from time to time on this forum, but I don't get why people like it so much and why it is such an important effect to EDM. I like some music outside my normal genres, and as a synth guy I want to like EDM more than I do. I think it is side chaining and the resulting pump that makes it all sound so much the same that it gets tiresome to my ears. Side chaining makes all the tracks sound similar, which I can understand to some degree in a night club when a DJ want to create a mix that blends seamlessly together and hopefully discourages people from leaving the dance floor when a song ends. You can't really tell when a song ends.

I know I'm just an old codger, but in 'my day' DJs played a wide range of genres and even had slow love songs that people slow danced to. Imagine that! That would never work now. DJs don't have the skills to vary the BPM/genres that once was normal. The side-chained BPM must all be the same constant pump so that awkward iPhone kids who have no coordination will not miss the beat when they try to dance. It all sounds so mass-produced that EDM is flat out boring outside a club, unless maybe you can imagine yourself back at the club when listening through ear buds on the subway. Music that uses side chaining isn’t necessarily bad, and can even sound quite well-produced, but the effect of so much of it on the ears can be numbing, in my humble opinion (you know I’m old because I actually wrote that out instead of using over-used acronyms that are the staple of millenials).

I’ll crawl back under my rock now.

yentz
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Joined: 10/15/2011

I think you very much think sidechaining = pumping bass. This is not the case.

Stiksi
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Joined: 11/21/2010

I doubt verry much that it is more easy to program an automation even for such a simple task as sidechaning the bass to the kick. the way the curve works (not just the time constants when it is loud and when not) has a massive impact on the groove

In NS:

1. create a sublane
2. create a pattern of a suitable length
3. open the pattern's volume automation section and draw the automation with your finger in 1/64th quantize.
4. Press play and adjust
5. Copy & paste the automation
6. Copy the pattern to any instrument you want to sidechain

Very simple and easy, IMO not tedious at all, you would have written that SC kick track separately anyway. The cool thing is that you can easily write different ducks for different hits and it doesn't create any latency because there is no compressor which needs lookahead time.

I get that you're used to compressors and know your way around them like the back of your hand. I'm not trying to argue that volume automation is better for your production. But you say that the lack of sidechaining is a dealbreaker and I'm trying to argue that it is nothing of the sort, it's just a slightly more low-tech approach which gets 95% of the same job done with some added perks as well. And when you get how the process works in NS, it's not even slower.

Because volume automation gives you direct control over the shape, depth and length of the duck, I've usually struggled to achieve similar results when I've moved a project from NS to Live and tried to cut corners by replacing automation with a sidechain (I tend to replace drum tracks and add a ton of synths).

Slam-Cut
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Joined: 09/07/2011

@yentz: "I think you very much think sidechaining = pumping bass. This is not the case."

Yes I do - albeit not directly. I think that is the net result, something like preventing the low end of bass line and kick drums from crashing into each other to create a muddy mass of audio confusion. I'm sure it's used in pop and various other genres, just most characteristically in EDM. However, if my thoughts on that are incorrect, I am certainly open to hearing more about it. I's always nice to learn new things on the forum.
Go on, I'm listening...

yentz
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Joined: 10/15/2011

It just means that you make space for an element by reducing the volume of other elements. I use it for emphasizing offbeat hihats and claps, getting rides sound nice without harsh attacks and just floating in the background, get layered chopped breaks interact with each other, give background synths slight variations by sc to bass etc., also nice on reverb returns for reverb as well as on reverb that is misused to get a reverb rumble bass like it was used in harder techno for a long time,There is tons of stuff it is useful for. When working in scales and tuning all drums I very often find myself not hitting bassnotes on the quarters and having kicks that are basically playing a note in the bassline so sc not always needed there. The effect can get quite annoying when used on bass with long release settings of the comp and sound like mhmm more commercial electronic music withe pumping sound you probably are thinking of right now but it is a great tool I am using constantly. It surely is possible to live without it but it would take me forever. People are different I also would never get into modular as it would keep me from finishing stuff. Same with sc. I am not that talented and patient to do it by hand. And until ns 2 comes out I suppose I am off better taking my 11 inch macbook air running live with all necessary plugins for my daily commute.

nano
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Joined: 03/06/2016

sidechain ..

eat ecstasy (o) & smoke joint (l)
sidechain result : smoke down , ecstasy up

hm ..

now you can go dance .. ;)

Slam-Cut
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Joined: 09/07/2011

OK, yeah. I can see that. Sounds like you use side-chaining for lots of different things. Very creative! Congrats for moving beyond what the norm is for side-chaining. I think I would tend to try to use automation, but that is probably because I'm not very comfortable using compressors. For someone like you that has a lot of experience using compressors, side-chaining does make a lot of sense. Thanks for the tips!

And thanks to nano for the real world analogy!

nano
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Joined: 03/06/2016

i fuckyng hate that intua's big pitch keyboard wheel ..

time to go sidechaining ..

hm