iPhone 7

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Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

That's the strange thing with iOS devices...no one knows yet.
The iPad Pro 9.7" has just usb 2 speed while the 12.9" has usb 3.

Artmuzz
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Joined: 10/21/2010

I'm fed up with Apple in fact pissed off is more the word. All they seem to cater for are the teenage audience nowadays with stupid games like Pokemon Go and us iOS musicians don't matter to them. The lack of a headphone jack on the iPhone 7 is pathetic and I am not too keen on wireless or Bluetooth earphones because of health hazards though I am surprised how good the sound quality on Bluetooth earphones are. The only people who seem to make iOS interesting are developers like Blip who make the iPhone and iPad a great device for us musicians.

Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

And while others may follow soon (there were also some before Apple) at least they have a standard called usb c. Apple might introduce lightning 2 before they would follow.
That is really the worst part. The Air Pods are limited to Apple devices.
Not sure how long i still want to bite this sour apple!
The market will speak if they do it right. But for sure it would take years to follow to hurt their hardcore fans so much that they would left.
Wireless might be the future but in Audio/Video production it is too early yet.

Slam-Cut
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Joined: 09/07/2011

While I do love to make cider by stopping Apple under foot, I have been wondering about something. Does the Lightning plug offer any advantages for Audio Out? I'm thinking about when the only way to get Audio in to the iPhone was through the headphone audio jack, and it wasn't good. Then companies started making devices that used the 30 pin connectors and there was a marked improvement in the quality of audio coming in to the iPhone/iPads. Is there any improvement in the DACs? Is the quality of Audio In or Out improved at all? Has anyone with the technical understanding looked at the specs to see what is going on? I dislike the extra costs of dongles and adapters, but it would be much easier to swallow this pill if there was some improvement in Audio. 24 bit 96K...?

Hmm. I'm sure it is just a delusional dream of mine.

Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

At least it sounds better when i use the lighting to connect to my macbook. It also gets instantly noticed as audio device.
The lightning for sure offers the highest quality output you will get out of your iOS devices but you need a proper DAC. I also would like to know if the DAC is better now but i doubt.
For sure the market with lightning headphones with included DAC's might get bigger now but you can have all that with usb c too.
The DAC's in the iPads are mediocre too.

tom_tm
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Joined: 06/29/2011

Oh stop slagging off Apple. Yes they make a phone. Yes is a pain in the arse. But Apple certainly don't make a musical instrument. The phone they make does what it's supposed to do- ie make calls. And yes, a lot of people use them for texting or gaming, or even calling people because what else do you do on that bus or train on the way home from work?

The problem (for me anyway) is that there simply isn't enough good hardware out there that'll work like in a similar way to the touch interface, but also be tactile too. The fact that phones and the like exist is something we just have to get over, or just make hardware that people would actually want to buy, and that is cheap enough to afford. And that's the real problem, and why developers prefer writing stuff for a phone, because they don't have to produce the hardware.

From what I remember, (and I agree with Galaxyexplorer here), the phone's DAC is rubbish anyway, and we've compromised by just using headphones. Not only that, but plugged into a wall wart, and the headphone plugged into a sound system, or Logic etc, there is so much whine and hiss and other crap- not to mention fecking bleeps from notifications and the like- unless you turn on aeroplane mode...

In fact, this is why I purchased one of those iConnectMIDI things.

Stiksi
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Joined: 11/21/2010

Oh, come on Tom, the iPhone is a very small computer which is used for all tasks that you don't want to drag out the laptop for. The phone part is just an app.

"From what I remember, (and I agree with Galaxyexplorer here), the phone's DAC is rubbish anyway," doesn't really change the fact that we had a great mobile solution for making music. Now we have the same with proprietary connectors, which severely limits the headphone selection or forces you to use another dongle which is prone to be lost or break. And also prevents you from connecting a controller at the same time.

It's not the end of the world but it's definitely a huge step away from the creative side of iOS and into the consumer side. And you can certainly see it as indicative of the direction Apple is heading.

Blip Interactive
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Joined: 04/05/2010

My complaint is not exactly that they took away the headphone jack (as there is the adapter, however tiresome), but that they took away the simplicity of charging whilst using headphones. The provided adapter should have had a female Lightning socket on the back. End of story.

So now we've got a solution from Belkin for approx £40, but it has a little 10cm lead trailing from it to the phone, so when you pick up the phone you also drag the Belkin adaptor, headphone adaptor and both the headphone and charging leads with you like the entrails of some cat you just murdered (or dog if you're into that). I gather this could be solved with yet another adapter to extend the Lightning cable from the phone to the Belkin device. Then you can finally argue that the iPhone 7 will have one less wire coming out of it than the equivalent iPhone 6 setup.

For audio, comparisons between the old 30 pin connector and Lightning aren't too useful. The 30 pin connector had analogue line in/outs which a lot of accessories might have used instead of USB. Lightning is basically only USB with a few extra digital lines, so all modern audio accessories will always need to do their own ADC/DAC and specs/performance will be down to them.

To my ears, the internal DAC and output amplifier on my iPhone 5 are extremely good. I didn't believe my ears so I had a dig around and here's a more scientific approach:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-5/audio-quality.htm

Worst case is when driving into a low impedance headphone load at full volume, but it's still good. Best case is when driving into a high impedence load (ie. line in), which is exactly how you'd want it to be designed.

It could be argued that as the iPhone's internal DAC sets a high standard, many cheap 3rd party audio accessories will inevitably be of lower quality.

Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

@tom_tm (or are you tim_cook_tm?).....i know bad joke....sorry ;)
You´re right but forgive me/us when we can´t applaude Apple for this move. It´s not about the move in general but the way how they do it.
The only hardware which works like a touch screen and has tactile feedback is indeed the Seaboard for me. But of course you can´t that compare to a flat glass touch screen. Totally different devices which might share similarities.
After some years of multi-touch use and migrating to more "hardware" i can say that multi-touch might great for editing and XY pads and stuff but is really mediocre for playing or even learn to play "real". It´s such a huge different if you play those iOS apps via hardware. So i agree here that it would be great to see more innovative things like the Seaboard but a bit cheaper for the mass market.
I mean if Apple would release their new Macbook Pro (if ever) with such a surface instead of the normal keys i would trow my money at that.
But it´s up to third party companies to create such niche devices of course.
So when will there be the hardware version of NanoStudio 2? Oh man....i already had a beer or two....sorry again!

tom_tm
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Joined: 06/29/2011

Who cares who I am. Butt this is very funny! (see what I did there?)

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/science-technology/apple-reveals-ipho...

tom_tm
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Joined: 06/29/2011

"My complaint is not exactly that they took away the headphone jack (as there is the adapter, however tiresome), but that they took away the simplicity of charging whilst using headphones. The provided adapter should have had a female Lightning socket on the back. End of story."

Good point.

But then having said that, I almost never listen to my iPod while charging it. Probably actually never. I like to move around, and that's why I'll listen mainly from my laptop either through decent headphones, or via speakers.

Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

Well, my karma catched me and i shot my macbook down.
No backup because i had no space....i hope i can recover it and get my licences to work.
Yeah, this are the times where iOS is much better. Just load your apps from the app store again...
Oh damn.....that is the worst case finally. Yes, must be karma.
Maybe i should buy an iPhone 7 LoL

tom_tm
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Joined: 06/29/2011
Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

But there will be an usb c connector and you can use headphones across devices and brands....maybe.
At least i have now so much emojis and stickers that i never have to talk again to real humans.
Future is that?!
Damn, not long and i get a stroke or heart attack anyway!

Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

Interesting, a comparison about the audio output quality of the iPhone 7 with the included adapter against the 6S on a german web site.
The 6S seems to offer more dynamics and less noise...especially with 24 bit output and high quality headphones.
The normal "customer" will not notice.
But yeah......so the old headphone jack wasn´t too bad ;)
Of course default iOS devices audio outputs are in general not for high fidelity but remove the headphone jack my ass :D

Stiksi
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Joined: 11/21/2010

That's interesting information, Galaxy. Not surprising, they have to use cheaper parts in adapters to meet their margin expectations. Let's see how long before they stop giving the adapters away with a new phone. My bet is next year.

Slam-Cut
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Joined: 09/07/2011

I think disconcerting is a better word than interesting. Especially that there is more noise on the 7. I wonder if that is a function of the adapter and I also wonder if some company will come up with better adapters. Also leads me to wonder what the NS2 specs will be for audio output. Is there any way to get around the limitations of iOS/hardware?

Blip Interactive
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Joined: 04/05/2010

> Is there any way to get around the limitations of iOS/hardware?

Yep definitely, you could use fairly cheap USB class compliant stereo audio device such as this:

Behringer U-Control UCA222
https://www.music-group.com/Categories/Behringer/Computer-Audio/Audio-In...

... or go posh with a proper multichannel audio/MIDI interface with mic pre-amps and phantom power such as this:

Steinberg UR44
http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/audio_interfaces/ur_series/models/u...

.. NS2 will be supporting multichannel devices in some way.

I can confirm that both of these work for me with the iPhone and the iPad. Downsides from personal experience:

- You need the USB->Lightning adapter
- iDevices seem to be a bit finicky about initially connecting (power up/connection order etc.) but seem OK once connected
- I've found no way of charging (or just simply externally powering) the iDevice when using these interfaces. I tried a powered USB hub I had lying around but couldn't get it to happen - although that could have been why the USB hub was left lying around in the first place.

Blip Interactive
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Joined: 04/05/2010

> But hey, the phone now has stereo speakers lol.

According to the teardown, it wasn't what I expected. The second 'speaker grille' at the bottom of the phone is actually the mic, and the second speaker is actually the receiver (the bit you hold to your ear) in a 'loud mode'.

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone+7+Plus+Teardown/67384

syrupcore
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Joined: 09/26/2010

Would have been tremendously goofy for them to put the second speaker on the bottom (or right, as most people would orient the phone when stereo might matter... netflix)**. Almost as goofy as bothering to include stereo speakers on a freaking phone in the first place.

** If iOS 10 failed to introduce landscape mode for the native Music app, any credits for avoiding goofiness are fully rescinded.

Stiksi
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Joined: 11/21/2010

Haha, I'm still waiting for Apple to introduce systemwide landscape keyboard! Since iOS 3.

fretless33
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Joined: 08/27/2015

Allow me to be the guinea pig LOL. My iPhone 5 started having some major issues and I was left with no choice but to get a new phone. There were no more iPhone 6s left because they were clearancing them out. Anyway, long story short I ended up deciding to bite the bullet and get the iPhone 7 despite only having Bluetooth headphone options. What I figured is I already own an audio interface (Presonus iTwo) which has multiple inputs and outputs. Essentially I only have to buy one adapter which is a USB to midi adapter (for my midi controller). My conclusion is if you already have a decent modern audio interface this Bluetooth headphone issue is actually no issue at all. The iPhone 7 does come with a small 8th inch jack to lightning wire adapter, but you guys are correct in that it will be very easy to lose (just leave it plugged in to your headphone wire). There's a lot of features in the iPhone 7 that are totally worth getting it for and I figured if I was getting a new phone I might as well get one that is up-to-date with technology and as of yet I do not regret my decision to get the iPhone 7. I will be sure to let you guys know if I run into any snags's in the future.

syrupcore
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Joined: 09/26/2010

Thanks for the update fretless33. Good luck with it!

> but you guys are correct in that it will be very easy to lose (just leave it plugged in to your headphone wire)

Would be neato if it actually came with a little clip/clamp that would attach to you headphone cable because I'm precisely the kind of messy airhead that will lose it the very first time I unplug it.

Or a T shaped adapter (that would never pass Ive's desk, I'm sure): bottom of the T is an 1/8" input, top left is the Lightning adapter and top right is 1/8" male. You always leave the adapter on your headphone cable and just swap which side of the T you're plugging in, depending on the device.

syrupcore
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Joined: 09/26/2010

Just downloaded iOS 10 to my phone. Still no landscape mode for the Music app. So, the plan here is to setup your new iPhone 7 in landscape orientation so that you can enjoy its dulcet stereo tones while fighting to do any sort of interaction with their flagship speaker filling app because it's sideways? That's really the plan?

Goofiness avoidance credits officially rescinded.

Stiksi
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Joined: 11/21/2010

One of those features that's there only for the "X android phone vs. iPhone specs" pages. I don't think Apple actually expects anyone to actively use it for listening to music.

tom_tm
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Joined: 06/29/2011

Well, I'm about to bite the bullet and also get an iPhone 7. I want it mainly for the camera and also to run Nanostudio on (to do some live gigs with phone and now 'ancient' iPad 4). I guess it's going to be a bit scary, but my iPhone 5 is just a bit too useless, especially since I've just fucked off EE (don't use these money grabbing arseholes!!) and gone with Giffgaff, who irritatingly don't fully support 4G yet on a 5 (I think this could be down to the networks forcing us all to upgrade- 'cos it's good business etc etc.... ALL wankers!!)

So, I'll give you an update once I get it, and how I get on with audio out (I must say, I use a Griffin iMic- cheap as chips, but works really well). But To be honest, I don't think it'll be that much of a problem. I'm more a progressive kind of guy, even though, and like everyone else, it hurts me in the wallet! :-/

Stiksi
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Joined: 11/21/2010

@ Tom: Judging by reviews, the iPhone 7 camera is only marginally better than the 6s's. If you don't want the faux depth of field effect, the discounted 32GB 6s might IMHO be a better deal.

Just to make things more interesting, a used, perfectly fine MFT camera that is superior to an iPhone in every single way, costs something like 250€. That won't run Nanostudio, but if you take that and the iPhone 6s, you'd be at the same price range as the iPhone 7.

tom_tm
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Joined: 06/29/2011

Don't I already know Stiksi. My 'other' camera is an Olympus OM-D E-M1. Admittedly, it's 'only' the mk1, but I've got most of the good lenses too, the 7-14, the 12-40 and the 40-150 (all f2.8) as well as two primes, the 45mm 1.8 and the brilliant Panasonic 25mm f1.7. Sorry, showing off a bit now! ;-)

But I want to do some gigs, and I need another iOS device. My phone is a 5, and therefore won't really do 4G (in the UK). So is it time to get a far better iPhone with camera, or something else?

PS- I love 'lo-fi' images. I've still got my old iPhone 3GS, and I love the camera on that. But low light stuff sucks a little, so having something like a 7 would be really nice. And I like depth of field, even though it may be artificial on the iPhone.

Stiksi
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Joined: 11/21/2010

That's a pretty impressive kit list :D I only took the MFT plunge this summer because I realized I never drag the D700 out except for assignments. I went for Panasonic because the GX7 was the right size and price (used, good as new) but my eye keeps wandering over to the Olympus side…

Let us know how the 7 works out! I won't get one myself because the home button doesn't work with gloves. That's not going to happen in Finland, but it's a non-issue pretty much anywhere else.

tom_tm
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Joined: 06/29/2011

The GX7 is certainly a nice camera. Waiting on the GH5 right now though.