iPhone 7

61 replies [Last post]
Slam-Cut
Offline
Joined: 09/07/2011

Looks like I'll be keeping my iPhone 6 for a while.
The Audio Jack adaptor for the lightening plug is an attempt by Apple to reconcile the issue, but I bet those get lost pretty easily. iPhone 7 might be a great phone/camera/computer, but it looks like using one for music will be a challenge. Short sessions while on the go should be fine, but it looks like it will be hard to do long sessions wherein you would want to be pluged in to keep the iPhone charged, but also have audio out and a MIDI keyboard. I haven't tried Bluetooth headphones (which might be a way to handle some of the problem) but I will bet that most Bluetooth headphones are consumer types and not studio quality.
Most of my music producing efforts are on the iPad these days. I hope the audio plug doesn't disappear on new iPads.

Jim Hanks
Offline
Joined: 06/14/2011

I haven't posted on the NS forum in awhile, but I stopped in to see what the chatter was on the iPhone 7.

I think "challenge" is an understatement. I've gotten a good bit of real music production done on my 4s with a mic or instrument input into the 30-pin port and monitoring over headphones. How is that even possible on the 7? Until shown otherwise, I can't believe BT phones will have acceptable latency and like slam-cut says, they aren't studio quality. "Challenge"? I would go so far to say that the 7 is almost useless for music production. I've been thinking about upgrading my 4s but sure as heck won't be to a 7. If I do, it will probably be to an SE.

Also been thinking about an upgrade from my iPad 2. I was hoping for a price drop on the 9.7 Pro today but didn't happen.

Very disappointing day for iOS.

Stiksi
Offline
Joined: 11/21/2010

But 400 flying monkeys must be worth losing simultaneous listening and charging! If they take away the ipad headphone jack, I predict a pretty big growth boom for external audio interfaces. I don't think people will just move back to using macbooks or switch to android.

Blip Interactive
Offline
Joined: 04/05/2010

The removal of the 3.5mm jack seems like a stupid annoying decision for iOS music makers. I mean, really dumb. I'm sure there are a lot of mainstream users who won't care, but my personal experience with Bluetooth devices has been largely negative, with issues due to range, reliability, battery life and latency. I really wouldn't want to rely on any wireless connection method in a mission critical situation such as a live performance. That leads me to believe that the Lightning to 3.5mm adaptor will be essential in many situations and some immediate questions come to mind:

- Is it possible to charge the device whilst using the 3.5mm adaptor?

- Is it possible to debug the device whilst using the 3.5mm adaptor?

- Does the 3.5mm adaptor include the 4th ring for simple mono external microphone connection? (it's only described by Apple as a headphone adaptor).

Let's say we instead play Apple's game and move to Bluetooth:

- What's the latency? Please tell me it's sub-millisecond or it makes a mockery of all the hard work spent on optimising an app to get buffer sizes low. If it's more than 10 milliseconds, then Android suddenly just became a competitive platform for music making.

- What are the input options? Users have contacted me in the past because NanoStudio doesn't support Bluetooth audio output. This is because iOS won't output to Bluetooth if an app also wants to record (as NanoStudio does). I assume this will have to change.

- What's the quality of the transmission? Many Bluetooth codecs seem to be lossy.

- What's the quality of the DAC? Depends on the Bluetooth device. There will be good ones out there, but a lot will be worse than what we have now as iOS devices already seem to have a pretty good one and many Bluetooth devices are cheap and marketed on range/battery life (which users understand) rather than DAC specs (which most users won't understand or be interested in, but are just as important).

Only advantage I can see is that the iPhone 6 just got cheaper and more attractive.

fretless33
Offline
Joined: 08/27/2015

I'll be watching this discussion. I have no plans of "upgrading" to an iPhone 7 any time soon (still have a perfectl Functional 5), but I'm curious how this Bluetooth feature is going to sort out with recording on the iPhone 7.

Blip Interactive
Offline
Joined: 04/05/2010

I'm still on an iPhone 5 too - was thinking the iPhone 7 would be the one to update to but I'll probably now get the 6. I only really wanted a larger screen and I'm not too worried about battery life as it sits on my desk so much.

No doubt people will gradually work around the lack of headphone jack (adapter, Bluetooth, dedicated hardware interface). I could put up with the Lightning -> 3.5 adapter if it also supported simultaneous charging. Surely it couldn't have been difficult to add a socket to the adapter to accept the lead for charging ...

Slam-Cut
Offline
Joined: 09/07/2011

Excellent questions Mr Blip! Uh... Any thoughts on how this impacts NS2 if at all?

Has anyone else been able to confirm the rumor that the sudio plug was taken out to make room for the larger 2 lens camera? I am hopefull that the iPads don't have this problem and that the larger size would allow for continued use of audio jacks. If not, and even with the iPhone 7, there is definitly a market for a lightning adaptor that allows simultaneous charging, audio monitoring, and MIDI connection.

IK Obi: this is your cue to jump in an annouce a useful product that solves this problem.

Blip Interactive
Offline
Joined: 04/05/2010

I'm not sure about the impacts on the app at this stage. Last time I checked, iOS didn't support Bluetooth audio output for apps using a 'play and record' audio session type. Like NS1, NS2 will also need to use this session type so it won't be able to output via Bluetooth unless they relax this restriction. Latency compensation would be necessary if recording from the internal mic and outputting to Bluetooth.

I don't really have any Bluetooth audio devices. If anyone does, I'd be interested to hear about your experiences with latency, and whether anyone's come across an app which can record and output Bluetooth audio.

syrupcore
Offline
Joined: 09/26/2010

You should be able to charge while listening provided you're ok with the asshattery of giving Apple another $40 for a dongle dongle and that said dongle has audio pass through which the $9 headphone adapter relies on. http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MK0W2AM/A/lightning-to-usb-3-camera-ad...

What horseshit.

Slam-Cut
Offline
Joined: 09/07/2011

Dongle Dongle is a nerd grunge/punk/country band.
...or at least should be.

Thanks for the link.

tom_tm
Offline
Joined: 06/29/2011

Oh well. At least we can thank the Chinese who are very good at manufacturing horse-shit to fix horse-shit, even though technically, it's still horse-shit.

What we really need is actually not the iPhone, but a separate product. Like a 'groove-station'. Battery operated, lots of buttons, no computer screen etc, lots of knobs... Maximum fun without the distraction of social media and the like! ;-)

tom_tm
Offline
Joined: 06/29/2011

PS, my experience of Bluetooth is that it only seems to work okay, if on both ends there is a powerful processor. Apple seem to put out the powerful processors expecting everyone else to follow suit, and then some wise dude in Korea says hey! What's this? Why, it's a three quarter inch mini jack socket. And so Apple is forgotten and manufacturers move with the traditional and much tested methods, while Apple blame the human race for being dumb. Or something like that.

Actually I bet you that Samsung will seize this very moment and make their next (non-exploding) phone have a minijack socket for those miffed about losing their favourite headphones, and having to buy some whacky hipster contraption that has a built in solar collector on top? ;-)

Blip Interactive
Offline
Joined: 04/05/2010

Interestingly, for not much more than the price of the CCK I can buy a brand new Motorola E Android phone. Which has a quad core processor, general purpose USB and a headphone jack.

So I gather you're suggesting you plug the CCK into the device, plug the Lighting->3.5 adapter into the CCK and then a charger into the CCK's USB socket. Does that definitely work?

Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

If they will do it with iPads and macbooks too?
I just wish they would include a damn usb-c type connection on the iPhone.
The lightning doesn't brought anything to us yet....or?
IPad pro with thunderbolt 3 and all the things you could connect to them....what a dream.
Super Mario? Pokemon? Lol! That's the future of Apple devices.
I could dream about a NanoStudio 2 on an Asus Transformer 3 hybrid.
Watch out Apple.....Surface Pro 5 is coming too....
Please don't cripple the Macbook Pro too next.

...end of rant :)

Blip Interactive
Offline
Joined: 04/05/2010

Oh you don't need to stop ranting yet. The way I think of it is, if we get all our ranting done here then our families won't have to hear it later.

Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

But no one out of my family care about it.....they are all consumers :)
So thank's to let me use this forum as valve...

Blip Interactive
Offline
Joined: 04/05/2010

Exactly - my family don't care either!

Just saw this: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/09/iphone-7-listen-music...

It's a bit confusing though - the main picture shows the CCK, but doesn't show it in a charging configuration.

Later on the article mentions this: http://www.cnet.com/uk/products/belkin-lightning-audio-plus-charge-rocks...

... which definitely looks like one possible solution. If you define 'solution' as something more expensive, unreliable and cumbersome than you had before.

Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

Indeed...not sure if that is all nice. Especially since i still (or again) use iPhone only for my iOS things.
At least my iPhone 6S plus has all the things i need still including an old fantastic working analog connection!
The prices are also so high and my income will get (another) huge cut, so that i have to figure out with deeper thought where i might see a future proof solution for my personal needs.
Still no surface phone ;)

Stiksi
Offline
Joined: 11/21/2010

"If you define 'solution' as something more expensive, unreliable and cumbersome than you had before."

I believe that is the Apple dictionary definition.

Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

If i wouldn't use Logic Pro X mainly now i would go for one of the hybrid windows 10 devices maybe but i tryed Bitwig and stuff but it doesn't talk to me.
I mean i don't have to use the latest and greatest, so i would be fine with a cheap android phone maybe in the future.
But i need power for my sample libraries and desktop synths....or i give up some day...but it's mainly the only fun i do. So i put as much into it as i can. I cancelled my holiday and bought the new Spectrasonics tool...decisions i have to made.
But iOS and it's devices are going to drifting more and more away for me since music production was/is still the main thing i prefered them to other mobile solutions.
Android has it quirks but i could connect my external SSD to it f.e.....with one cheap cable!!!

Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

...furthermore even Apple itself recommend in the fine print that the new black colour could get scratches and a cover is recommended.....LOL!
Design over function in any possible way!!!!
But the sad thing is that it will still sell like hot shit!
My only hope is the new macbook pro now.
So....now my rant ends......really ;) .....for now.

Slam-Cut
Offline
Joined: 09/07/2011

We need a new contest for the person who can come up with and sucessfully test the iPhone 7 Dongle Kluge. The set up must allow for listening through traditional cable headphones, MIDI In/Out, and simultaneously charge the iPhone 7. Extra points for using the least number of dongles and adaptors as well as overall lowest cost/best performance ratio.

Go!

Anybody standing in line yet to order a new iPhone 7????

Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

What about you? :D

Slam-Cut
Offline
Joined: 09/07/2011

I just replaced my dead iPhone 6+ with a new iPhone 6+ in May. I may have to wait a while.
My family doesn't care either!!!!

Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

What's wrong with our families? Lol
I hope my phone will last now for the next 4-5 years or so.
I don't care much about new iOS versions as well.
3D touch (and maybe the iOS audio units) beeing the only interesting new things.
No new better version of 3D touch this year. For velocity it is not the best but for polyphonic aftertouch it works very good!

syrupcore
Offline
Joined: 09/26/2010

"So I gather you're suggesting you plug the CCK into the device, plug the Lighting->3.5 adapter into the CCK and then a charger into the CCK's USB socket. Does that definitely work?"

I have no idea.

How many dongles are they going to have to sell to make up for the cost of buying Beats for a billion bucks?

Slam-Cut
Offline
Joined: 09/07/2011

Good question syrupcore

syrupcore
Offline
Joined: 09/26/2010

I bet someone will make 1) a charging cable with a headphone jack and 2) a case with a headphone jack. Or someone orta.

Slam-Cut
Offline
Joined: 09/07/2011

I'd like a case with a headphone jack & 2 lightning plugs (charger and MIDI)

Galaxyexplorer (not verified)

Is possible to use a splitter for lightning? And has the new iPhone now usb 3 at least or still usb 2?
At least the plus has now 3GB ram.

Stiksi
Offline
Joined: 11/21/2010

Is the internal flash drive above USB 2 speeds?